Dateline: Monday morning:
“’Yes, I’m still employed’ have no idea what the Virginia Tech press conference is about.”
-Virginia Tech men’s basketball head coach Seth Greenberg-
Dateline: 4:04pm:
“We have terminated Seth Greenberg’s tenure as our basketball coach.”
-Virginia Tech Athletic Director Jim Weaver-
See what I mean?
| T |
his one will be short and sweet, as I am actually on a medical sabbatical from TSL.com. That said, this story is too big to be treated via an outta sight outta mind approach; and the gamer in me is getting awfully fidgety on the TSL sidelines. Well, at least it will be short, no make that medium to mid-range; as Monday afternoon saw the ending of a bittersweet tenure at Virginia Tech of one former head basketball coach Seth Greenberg. Nine years in, and now on his way out.
Numerous media sources tweeted and retweeted that Seth was guilty of what they described as a “Fractured relationship with the Athletic Director.” I’ll take that a step further and simply inform you that I could name the number of legitimate hardcore Seth Greenberg backers inside of the Jamerson Athletic Center in 140 characters, or less. To be fair, there were a few; and the few were few and far between. Simply put, Seth Greenberg did not mix well with the people who matter. To take that another step, there were numerous rumors regarding potential interest by one Seth Greenberg himself in the Pony Express (which just hired coaching itinerate vagabond extraordinaire Larry Brown) and a school from up East who shall remain nameless as they may or may not be interested in Mr. Greenberg at this time. Does that read like a fractured relationship to you? Reads more like a compound fracture to me with an Athletic Director, who just like Sauron of Lord of the Rings fame, “does not share power” with anyone. Well, at least not with anyone not name Frank Beamer that is; though I digress. This coming from one of the singular people who staunchly defended his hiring when the TSL message boards –by and large- took the bronze medal winner (recall Seth was Virginia Tech’s third choice) to task way back when.
“A blind man could see it with a cane…“:
The orange and maroon writing was on the Cassell Coliseum wall folks, and the writing read: “going, going, gone” for most of the second-half of the year.
Someone first heard this from the mega big-money donors’ mid-season at mid-court. Such was dutifully reported to Will and Chris and even further dutifully remarked that it was most interesting to see the retraction of Seth Greenberg and his sideline antics –which were quite antic- right after the Florida State game by Seth himself. As the once raucous coach seemed more parts unplugged when compared to his former state, which seemed more parts unglued. Someone wrote at that time, that they were now wondering out loud if Seth knew something that the rest of us did not. Numerous sources noted that Seth had never officially been fired before in his D-1 head coaching career. Such suggest that he (Seth) had always kept a deft index finger on the timing of the political pulse which had become no better than thready indeed as a last-second 2011-2012 campaign wound to a disappointing spring broke 15-16 close. Ditto the blizzard of transfers from disgruntled players over the years who were heretofore muzzled as it was Seth’s way or the highway, well, at least it was until Jim Weaver pulled an unannounced detour just after 4pm on Monday afternoon. Some posters on the techsideline.com message boards are calling Jim Weavers lack of informing Seth Greenberg beforehand “inconsiderate”, “unprofessional” or worse. What others are calling inconsiderate and/or unprofessional I am calling: “calculated”. As this was a slap down move and it was a slap down move good and hard. Make no mistake on that folks.
***
In addition to all of that, we see the recent history of basketball Staff defections en mass; the British have a saying for all of this: “…when ten men tell you you’re drunk you’d better lie down” as the level of inebriation regarding Greenberg fatigue had reached a donor, player and staffer combined fever pitch. This however segues me to my next point rather effortlessly … as the previous concerns about Jim Weaver making a parsimonious or money-saving bottom-line oriented move via hiring within are slim and none, and none just left town. As Virginia Tech currently has no basketball staff to speak of after an Exodus en mass in the last few days. Ergo, phobia of textbook so-called “group think” or promotion from within are now fully unfounded, not to mention underfunded.
Loading ...That said, it is most curious to read between the Jamerson Athletic Center lines and note that none other and Jim Weaver himself said that this decision had been made en force about a week ago. I don’t know about you, though that sure seems like enough time to begin to draw up a list of potentials or candidates to me. One of which is said to be the “havoc” wreaking up-tempo Norm Chow of men’s hoops at Virginia Commonwealth University. If the whispers shake out to be true, this would be a very smart looking upgrade along the Virginia Tech bench where full-court pressing and a fast-breaking offense would be the order of the day.
That said, I do wish Seth Greenberg well as I’m a big fan of: you kill ’em with kindness. Or you catch more flies with sugar than you do with salt.
Seth Greenberg is just not a people person. He desperately craved to escape Frank’s campus wide shadow and carve his very own orange and maroon revenue sport niche. One can not blame him for such; though in retrosight, one can see the disconnect.
Seth Greenberg is a reasonable program resuscitator, and a pretty dang solid defensive and fundamental coach. He is also a verbal narcissist who never meet a microphone that he did not like, and he will make some college basketball television network a very very handsome color-commentator or expert analyst –presuming he is a little late to the 2012-2013 hiring party.
Don’t believe me? Just ask Seth…
“LETS GO!”
“HOKIES!”
bourbonstreet**
“a slap-down move good and hard”….indeed it was, and quite effective I might add!
Whatever bad blood was boiling between these two ended the way boss/employee feuds almost always end. Unless you have some very solid evidence and photos to back them up, the boss wins.
And Jim Weaver don’t play. Not at all.
And ^that^ is not coming from a Jim Weaver honk.
That said, as someone just eMailed me: with all the defections and departures; how much longer could Weaver have let this go on???
If he did not make a move now, when?
To me it was the basketball Staffing departures that broke the proverbial camels back and forced Weaver’s hand. When all of them bail on you, how do you spin that to the good for the masses?
b’street
How can we not compare Beamer & Greenberg Each seem to have taked Tech as far as he can Greenberg has beaten # 1 Beamer has not Beamer has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory “Michigan” Greenberg mouthing off about “certifiably insane”
Weaver may have fired his best hire Think about it
Not sure how anyone can say he “wasn’t a Hokie”. The man poured 9 years of his life into the program and sent his daughters – his daughters – to VT. Whatever you believe about his tenure, saying he wasn’t a Hokie seems wrong.
so true…see also his “teaching sessions” held for the students.
Aside from all of the events of the last week or so that led up to today’s firing of SG, I for one believe that even if the relationship between SG and Weaver had been fine, we need a new basketball coach. Not just ANY coach, mind you, but a proven winner on the big stage who will bring instant credibility to the program, attract talent that otherwise would not consider VT as their basketball home, fill the seats in Cassell, and get us into the NCAA tournament with some degree of regularity.
Does VT/Jim Weaver want to spend the bucks to make that happen? I don’t know, but if the Goal(s) of our basketball program are intended to generate the wins and the revenue that one Frank Beamer has brought to the football program, then we don’t have a lot of choice but to make the investment in the right head coach and stop settling for anything less.
As much as I enjoyed and like the basketball “spirit” that Seth brings to the table, he has never showed that he could get us or any other place he’s been head coach, to the “next level”.
I personally am not sure that the “powers” at VT want to become a bigtime ACC basketball program..and even if they do, it ain’t going to happen overnight.
Seth didn’t get it done “overnight” but he also didn’t get it done over almost a “decade”.
I hate to see him go, but IF Weaver makes the right move this time,, we’ll miss SG, but not for long.
@dokee:
I suppose is is occasionally possible to identify and tag a relative unknown; and yet superlative up-n-comer of a head coach and get him on the cheap.
That said, whomever does sign with Virginia Tech, I for one will be watching his annual base salary very closely indeed. (ditto his staff)
How that compares to the rest of the A.c.c. is gonna tell you a whole helluva a lot.
late-
b-st.
I have zero confidence that Weaver can make a very good basketball hire. All the evidence indicates he has no clue WRT basketball coaches.
Witness the disaster that followed Bonnie Henrickson. Or the disaster that Bobby Stokes was. And now the failure (only way to describe it) with Greenberg.
Remember, Dave Braine promoted. BHussey JWE went cheap and on the recomendation from John Joudon to hire stokes.
@48:
That too is in play.
Weaver is a fiscal conservative to put it mildly.
However that is part of what I was pointing out when I mentioned that he has no assistants on Staff to “hire within” from any more. That may up his ante no matter how you slice it –and that may just be a good thing for VT in the end.
b’street
@Atlee:
Weaver is a football guy, first second and third.
Make no mistake on that.
(old Penn.St. coach under JoePa in fact)
However, though I am inclined to agry; I am now hoping that Weaver has (accidentally) forced Weaver’s very own hand a little bit and that he now must make an even bigger (better) hire than he may have originally planned to appease the masses who appear to be unhappy with the way in which this was handled.
b’street
Regardless of whether Seth needed to go or not, publically smacking down an employee as you fire him is dirty, rotten, scumbag management. If Weaver worked for me he would have been given a box at 4:10. That was despicable.
Bobby
@savannah:
Yah; there has to be a higher road.
You’ll get no debate from me on such Sir.
Though again, the fact that Weaver choose the road that he did tells me all I need to know.
b’street
p.s. and this just occurred to me … maybe this one something of an attempted show of strength via Weaver to help reduce the image of his (continued) medical decline?
Who is trying o prove it too? Frank and his staff are virtually untouchable absent a Petrino type episode. Why would he make this kind of power okay to show he’s in charge. Not sure the way this was handled will look good in the eyes of possible coaching candidates.
@2000:
Hmmmmmm, that is a well thought out and subjectively protected point.
I’m spit-balling here, Mmmmmmk? Though I could almost see the mega Alpha-Male, otherwise known as Jim Weaver, wanting to just prove it period. Be that to himself, to the rest of the athletic department itself. (as you correctly state: not named Frank)
There is a chest-pounding Tarzan element in play here somehow, someway.
b’street
If this was an attempt to show “I’m in charge of this department despite my current medical issues” as you speculated as one of the reasons, it sure backfired as evidenced by the sequence of events and the incoherent press conference.
He got what he wanted, but it’s only because basketball ranks 5th in priority in the athletic department with football occupying the top 4 slots.
@74:
The poll above appears to speak to and quantify your very point.
I’ll go ahead and confess, I did not expect that “handled poorly” response to be #1.
I actually like it when the good masses of TSL throw me a curveball; even if I am out in front or late on such. Because when I get surprised is when I learn the most.
b’street
I dont think Weaver is pulling “Alpha-Male” Seth had run the b-ball team close to the ground.. Player and coaches leaving year after year. Face it SG was on his last legs when the Cassell went half empty last year.. He just simply cant coach Xs and Os. Its that simple.. One can winge all they want about us getting left out of the tourney 09-10 but simply put win a game and we are in.. ODU, Mason, VCU, have more tourney trips in the last 5 years than we do.. They take less and do more.. I am happy to see Seth gone.. I was tired of his bluster on the sidelines.. I am sure he will be happy making cash for ESPN.. But goodbye and thanks.. And for those that compare him to Beamer.. stop..
@pebblebrookhokie:
I feel that.
As there was always part of me that saw both Revenue Sports programs through the same lens. Solid on defense, good special teams and an offensive attack that seemed to be left wanting at times.
If I had to red-flag anything regarding Coach Seth in pure X’s and O’s terms, it would be his offensive approach for sure; hands down.
b’street
“Things always end badly. If they didn’t they wouldn’t end.” – Jerry Maguire
Don’t read more into this than there is. Basketball coaches get fired all of the time for much less. I’m taking Weaver at face value, they weren’t going to renew his contract anyway so why keep him around after his whole staff left? Coaches, with the exception of a few, are not there for life. For the most part they’re there for a few years until they stop exceeding expectations. End of story. At least we don’t have to pay him $7M to go away – ala Paul Hewitt. Nobody likes getting fired and people are always going to be upset and bitter – but that’s the nature of the business. The sad part of this is that I doubt we’re going to get anyone much better. I like your allusions to Shaka Smart but he seems pretty happy at VCU. He said no to Illinois and that’s a better job than Tech is. He would be a perfect fit though. If I were in charge I would go for a young guy with energy and an up-tempo, offensive philosophy. Watching us run an offense was painful last year with poor Green just dribbling around until 4 seconds left on the shot clock. We’ve got the athletes – we just need the system.
@Nova99:
Good broad-brush paint job.
We all needed that strategic reminder that most coaches in any revenue sport system are –hired to be fired.
Agry on the offensive part as well.
Note I did not praise Seth for that.
b’street
The best choice by far is Chaka Smart. You pay him 3rd behind Roy at NC and Mr K at Duke . He can or is that good
Shaka is making bank at VCU right now and doesn’t want to leave. I’m not sure we could offer him enough money to coach at VT but we should definitely give it a shot.
jmc81vt:
I have to agry.
He is third best with a bullet the moment he arrives as well.
Everything my sources say on him is superlative at best.
Shaka+Frank=best revenue sport combo in the A.c.c. from day one.
Hands down.
Game. over.
Full stop.
b’street
Anyone see Dennis Wolfe coming back down the hall? Weaver still has THAT option….
As best as I can tell, Weaver could go anywhere with this hire. And I do mean anywhere.
Weaver indicated as much during his pressor in fact.
b’street
IMO SG’s time at Tech was not a failure in fact the program is better today than when he arrived. Plus, he did it the rightr way; therefore, the new coaches will not be fighting that battle.
Mr. Weaver may have shot himself in the foot or at least backed himself in a corner with the way this was handled. Being in that family would keep be looking over my shoulder wondering if the axe is going to hit me in the back. It may have struck fear but respect just left the room.
God bless, Seth, my respect and prayers go with you.
Nice post Mr. Lacy:
I gave a Pay message board poster props for the state of the program arrival vis-à-vis departure generic positive slope that Seth has engineered at Vah.Tech. And I’m giving you the same props.
Less two hiccup seasons; the overall program trended in a mostly positive direction.
Seth merits praise for such accordingly.
As he sure took over a hot-mess when he got here.
b’street
p.s. nice prose as well, (fear — respect left the room)
Here is the total beat-down that VT/Weaver are taking in the 3o4 cyber media this morning…
…have to admit, though I knew this one would be dicey, maybe even altogether sensitive; however; this one may be getting away from Vah.Tech and Weaver as I type.
b’street
IT IS A SAD SITUATION FOR GREENBERG, WEAVER, AND VT. I HAVE BEEN WATCHING VT. BASKETBALL SINCE BACK IN THE 50’S, THE TEAMS THAT REALLY STOOD OUT TO ME WERE THE TEAMS DEVOE AND MOYER PUT ON THE FLOOR. THEY MADE BASKETBALL VERY EXCITING AT VT. I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY TEAM SINCE THEN THAT CAN EQUAL WHAT THEY BROUGHT TO THE CASSELL. IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT TO EVEN GET A TICKET TO SEE VT. BASKERBALL. I DON’T THINK VT HAS TO TAKE A BACK SEAT TO ANY COLLAGE IN VA. AND OUTSIDE VA. LIKE THEY HAVE HAD TO THE LAST FEW YEARS. GO HOKIES!!!
Actually I liked the Howie Shannon teams with Spider Perry, Chris Ellis, Glen Combs, …
The Chuck Noe teams, which I didn’t get to see, were also very exciting.
The 67 team made it to the NCAA Elite 8.
Some of your VT hoops historians may recognize this C.Moir era foe…
b’street
Mr. B-Street
Loved your reference to the “smart” move it would be to bring in a form of B’ball with a full court press and running a fast break. Momma wrote Mr. Coleman a little while back stating the same thing and i must warn you, Mr. Coleman gave us a beat-down to even think we could lure the VCU coach. He’s probably right but once in a while he gets a bit short with consideration.
As fate would have it, the VCU coach is probably not in the cards. No matter how smart that move would be.
What say you regarding Mr. Collins at Duke or Mr. Marshall at Wichita State? Is Steve Amaker worth considering? Your thoughts please.
Best to Hokie Nation, let’s move on.
/r
Slim
@Slim:
If you ask me to pick from that bunch; I’d prolly say hire the Shocker (Wichita State) guy.
That said, if the whispers on Mr. Smart do not come to fruition; I would not die of shock if Weaver went way off grid as this hire goes and leaves everyone scratching their head.
b’street
B-Street –
Many thanks for your quick reply. Best to you during your health sabbatical.
God bless.
/r
Slim
B’ Street.
Couple of things –
JW said SG was fired for reasons like there was not that family atmosphere in the men’s basketball coaches he wanted in the athletic programs under him. It is said he was abrasive and rubbed others in the department the wrong way (players and asst. coaches too). Okay, but were any of those things not true a week, or a month, or since the MBB season ended? And certainly if knocking off a #1 team had been followed by beating the teams they were supposed to beat, then NCAA bids would have followed and I feel sure JW would have held his nose and put up w/SG even longer. But to not recognize he needed firing right after the season, or not at any point before yesterday – C’MON JW!
And not beating teams they should have beat to earn the NCAA bids leads me to question your statement (great article by the way) that SG is “a pretty dang solid defensive and fundamental coach. ” I always questioned his teams’ lack of fundamentals, honestly. I wondered if they ever practiced “stuff” like free throws, and layups…because they seemed to miss the easier shots, the closer they got to the rim, in a lot of those losses that shoulda been wins. Ehh, but what do I know? I just never thought him a great fundamentals coach in practice terms, but maybe he was.
@Winchester:
Thank you for the props.
The timing of that was like the old Klingon adage, “Four thousand throats may be cut in one night by a running man.”
Or in other words, why did we wait and then suddenly get in such a big hurry? That injured VT just as much as it sideswiped Seth.
Me thinks this has to do with Seth trying to land the S.M.U. job for himself –as Seth was politically savvy enough to know that he had warn out his orange and maroon welcome. To me, Seth attempting to sell himself while still collecting (and cashing) a hefty VT check really burned Weaver up inside. You will not hear or read that anywhere, as the official party-line no matter what. Though that is what I am told.
Yes, if Seth had won a bit more, I have no doubt he is still VT’s head basketball coach. Even a clean N.I.T. bid this year might have kept him under roof.
The fundamental part I do get.
Though Seth had been changing his practices up a bit more in recent years to go back and reboot some of that as you just do not see that at the mindlessly selfish A.A.U. and Nike the kid can do NO ‘rong circuit.
b’street